Curse

kazjun · Apr 18, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Why waste time making and implementing a system that has to TAKE away weaps/armour/skills/level/attribs everytime you move between the battle isles to the pve areas? Especially when you can have all that already just by making a pvp character.

And the only thing it effects is armour skins anyway. All your skills on that pve char? Your pvp would have it. You want your pve chars face? Recreate it on pvp. All your attribs? Pvp gets 200 right off. You want a chaos axe on your warrior? Shove it in the storage.

Let Anet work on hardmode and GWEN rather than waste time on crap like this. Or at least say to put unlocked pve armour skins available for pvp selection, that'd be one single change that'd let you make your pvp exactly like your pve char, rather than making up a whole new system.

Yichi · Apr 18, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinn

So you're voting for imbalanced PvP, where one side has distinct advantages that another side doesn't?

Everyone in this game has the option to make a pvp only character. Its the persons own fault for filling their account with nothing but pve toons. So if everyone has access to pvp chars, how is pvp imbalanced per characters?

Pve characters can and do PVP. they recieve access to all the content that guildwars has to offer. But they have to use the weapons, runes, armors, etc... that they find or buy while in pvp as well as either buy, earn, or cap the skills they need.

PVP chars can make instant max weapons, armor, runes, and have access to all unlocked skills, but they can only access the PVP only areas. They cannot wander around lions arch and participate in events in pve areas....

If you want to PVP with a PVE toon, pay the price and put in the time and effort to max your character and get them the things they need to be PVP ready. If you dont, then everyone has access to use a PVP only character. Its your own fault if you choose not to leave a slot open to be able to use one.

Myrkwid · Apr 18, 2007, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

Everyone in this game has the option to make a pvp only character. Its the persons own fault for filling their account with nothing but pve toons. So if everyone has access to pvp chars, how is pvp imbalanced per characters?

Same goes vice versa. Everyone was able to create a rpgtoon, still pvpplayers were crying "imba imba imba". What did ANet do? They nerfed/removed several pveitems (denravi, rockmolder,...). They removed armor swaps, they added more weapon slots for pvpcharacters, they...

These changes were made with the reason of balancing things out (although ANet always, until the release of pvppacks, claimed that rpgcharacters were supposed to have a minor advantage). With your logic these were all totally useless changes, as everybody was able to create a rpgcharacter and get the stuff and everything was already balanced.

Rpgcharacters are supposed to be able to do both, not just pve.

Craywulf · Apr 18, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

The entire point of PvE is to roleplay, Wherein PvP is about competing against others on equal footing. However PvE allows you to roleplay and compete against others.....provided that you roleplay your character through all the right avenues so that eventually you can be on equal footing.

I see no reason to change.

countesscorpula · Apr 18, 2007, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Yeah, that would be great...
Give pve characters everythin that pvp characters have but don't even think about givin pvp characters more armour!
Ah, mentality of some players...

Personally, I would have no objections to PvP chars having access to 15k and FoW armor. I would likely insist that it would take a pretty good amount of Balth faction to unlock such things (just like it takes lots of gold and rare materials to make them in PvE). Anyone see anything wrong with that?

MithranArkanere · Apr 18, 2007, 09:28 AM // 09:28

If some ascended armor where unlocked like that, it should be unlocked PIECE BY PIECE.

And being unlocked also by PvE acquisition, like ANYTHING else.
THere is nothing you can unlock in PvP but not in PvE.

Orinn · Apr 18, 2007, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

Everyone in this game has the option to make a pvp only character. Its the persons own fault for filling their account with nothing but pve toons. So if everyone has access to pvp chars, how is pvp imbalanced per characters?

The diffference between a PvP player and a PvP character, actually. Let me ask you, is Pvp supposed to be based on skill? I can bring a Pvp necro into an arena and do so much. But a PvE necro that i bring in is far more limited. The PvP content is SUPPOSED to be a level playing field which tests a PLAYER, not their character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

Pve characters can and do PVP. they recieve access to all the content that guildwars has to offer. But they have to use the weapons, runes, armors, etc... that they find or buy while in pvp as well as either buy, earn, or cap the skills they need.

I never said that they a PvE character could not be taken into PvP. I said that it's unfair to penalize a player for bringing a non-PvP character into PvP, where, again, SKILL, not money spent, is supposed to be the critical factor.

Suppose I bought the Prophecies PvP unlocks. Why can i NOT use those unlocks for their purpose: playing in PvP? Does it really make sense to you that some characters benefit from this, but others don't, when it's supposed to be tied to my account.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildwars.com

Even if you already own Prophecies or Factions, you can add the PvP Edition to unlock that campaign's skills onto your account for PvP play.

The marketing page for the PvP packs. Not that the last bullet point says nothing about it being only for PvP characters, although the rest of them do. Implication is that if you own Prophecies or Factions, you can buy the unlock pack and be able to Pvp with the skills you just paid for, but it's the only point that does NOT mention creating a new character to do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

PVP chars can make instant max weapons, armor, runes, and have access to all unlocked skills, but they can only access the PVP only areas. They cannot wander around lions arch and participate in events in pve areas....

If you want to PVP with a PVE toon, pay the price and put in the time and effort to max your character and get them the things they need to be PVP ready. If you dont, then everyone has access to use a PVP only character. Its your own fault if you choose not to leave a slot open to be able to use one.

Why would I create a Pvp-only dervish when I HAVE a dervish to play? Or a necro, or a mesmer, or whatever? Allow PvE characters to play in the PvP areas on the same terms as the PvP characters. It won't HURT anything, and yet people are so dead-set against it. I really don't understand why players are so insistent that PvE characters shouldn't be able to break into PvP without spending hundreds of platinum on cap signets, not to mention whatever tehy spent on weapons.

I see all kinds of excuses, but not a single reason that this would create any problems. As many have said, it's the same as rolling up a PvP-only character, without the need to create one. Unless Pvp characters are somehow unbalanced themselves, then allowing a PvE character to emulate them won't cause any balance issues either.

I DO see the problem with auto-levelling people once they go to the battle isles. That's one difference that should remain between PvP and PvE characters: Pvp characters start at level 20. Allowing a level 9 into the battle isles, giving them level 20 stats and such, and letting them fight is just giving them free XP. So no, no auto-levelling to 20 to support powerlevelling.

However, that is about the only difference that should exist between PvE and Pvp characters. A year ago, the mechanics of PvP were such that PvE characters who were set up had a distinct advantage from the mechanics of the arenas. ArenaNet saw that this was a Bad Thing, because the arenas were supposed to be about skill, not who had the advantages before the match even started. Now, PvP characters retain all their advantages, and PvE characters have to catch up. It's still a Bad Thing, and would hurt NOBODY to make it a fair competition, where skill matters more than what type of character someone plays.

There should be no difference in mechanics from a level 20 PvP-only character and a level 20 PvE character in the arenas. None. Any difference that exists only serves to put people at a disadvantage in what is supposed to be a fair contest.

linh · Apr 18, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinn

The diffference between a PvP player and a PvP character, actually. Let me ask you, is Pvp supposed to be based on skill? I can bring a Pvp necro into an arena and do so much. But a PvE necro that i bring in is far more limited. The PvP content is SUPPOSED to be a level playing field which tests a PLAYER, not their character.

Yes, PvP is supposed to be based on skill and always that. That's why you can create a PvP character to have the same advantage as others.
PvP content is supposed to test a player, not their character - Yes, create a pvp char to play in it, not pve character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinn

I never said that they a PvE character could not be taken into PvP. I said that it's unfair to penalize a player for bringing a non-PvP character into PvP, where, again, SKILL, not money spent, is supposed to be the critical factor.

Nothing is penalized here. You can bring your PvE character to PvP with equal gears and items but you must spend time and effort in it if you want to look pimp in shiny armor and weapons. You can't and shouldn't get that achivement easily. And if you don't want to spend time on it, then, again, create PvP char and nothing is unfair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinn

Suppose I bought the Prophecies PvP unlocks. Why can i NOT use those unlocks for their purpose: playing in PvP? Does it really make sense to you that some characters benefit from this, but others don't, when it's supposed to be tied to my account.

It is your own fault that you used all your slot on PvE chars. And it is also business model of ANet. You have 8 slots by default ( assume that 7 for PvE and 1 for PvP). If you want more slot to create RPG char, like you did with your 8th slot ( supposed to be pvp char), then you have to buy more slot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinn

Why would I create a Pvp-only dervish when I HAVE a dervish to play? Or a necro, or a mesmer, or whatever? Allow PvE characters to play in the PvP areas on the same terms as the PvP characters. It won't HURT anything, and yet people are so dead-set against it. I really don't understand why players are so insistent that PvE characters shouldn't be able to break into PvP without spending hundreds of platinum on cap signets, not to mention whatever tehy spent on weapons.

Yes, it hurts. A lot of people spend time and effort to make their PvE char ready ( to look cool while they still have PvP char when necessary). If ANet
make PvE char PvP ready easily now, that will be unfair for them.

In conclusion, people want to have PvE char easily ready for PvP without spending time and effort. No way I think this will happen because it will be unfair for others who made that achievement. It is also business model of ANet, so if you want more slots for role playing, you have to buy it.

Strange Guy · Apr 18, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

/Notsign. So the whole portion of making PvP char only will be useless. Anet even make the account for PvP char ONLY! There is the reason for that! Plus there are a lot of stuffs that PvE char have more advantage than PvP. There weapons that is so unique that even PvP char can not create such as -35 HP offhand, HoH Axe + 75 HP and/or -1 Health or -1 Energy regen weapons! As a long time monking player, I also have the feeling that FoW amour give more advantage than normal amour which I can not prove!

Myrkwid · Apr 18, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by linh

Nothing is penalized here. You can bring your PvE character to PvP with equal gears and items but you must spend time and effort in it if you want to look pimp in shiny armor and weapons. You can't and shouldn't get that achivement easily.

And it will still remain the same. Stuffed with pvpequipment an rpgcharacter looks the same. If an rpgcharacter wants to look cool while pvping he still needs the same amount of work as before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by linh

It is your own fault that you used all your slot on PvE chars. And it is also business model of ANet. You have 8 slots by default ( assume that 7 for PvE and 1 for PvP). If you want more slot to create RPG char, like you did with your 8th slot ( supposed to be pvp char), then you have to buy more slot.

If it is ANets businessmodell to squeeze as much money out of the players, why do you get accountwide unlocks and not characterbound ones? That way they could even get more money outside of pvpplayers who don't want to waste unlocks deleting characters and still want to be able to play every profession. Also they stated on several occassions, that both charactertypes should be equal in pvp, that's why they banned all benefits rpgcharacters have. You're arguement here is worthless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by linh

Yes, it hurts. A lot of people spend time and effort to make their PvE char ready ( to look cool while they still have PvP char when necessary). If ANet
make PvE char PvP ready easily now, that will be unfair for them.

With pvpequipment rpgcharacters look the same like pvpones, shinier equipment still needs the same amount of grind. So nothing would change and people who worked for their better looking equipment still look the exactly same amount better. It's like it has always been. But they are then at a disadvantage? Huh? So basically you say rpgcharacters are currently at a visual disadvantage that is not fair? Confusing..

Quote:

Originally Posted by linh

In conclusion, people want to have PvE char easily ready for PvP without spending time and effort.

People want characters to be easily ready for pvp. Yes. And where is the problem with it? If it is wrong to have easily ready characters, why are there pvpcharacters in this game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by linh

No way I think this will happen because it will be unfair for others who made that achievement.

So having the same advantage as always becomes suddenly a disadvantage? Yes, bad times, back in the good days a dollar was worth 100 cents and today it is just worth a dollar...

Quote:

Originally Posted by linh

It is also business model of ANet, so if you want more slots for role playing, you have to buy it.

Then why don't they charge extra for pvpcharacters or why do they offer the pvpedition at a discount price?
hey, I have an idea: every account just gets rpgslots and a pvpslot has to be bought seperately for every account. So much more bucks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Guy

There weapons that is so unique that even PvP char can not create such as -35 HP offhand, HoH Axe + 75 HP and/or -1 Health or -1 Energy regen weapons! As a long time monking player, I also have the feeling that FoW amour give more advantage than normal amour which I can not prove!

-35 HP offhand?
Uh, can't remember one, just -50HP and it hasn't seen any use I know of outside of farming in pve.

HoH axe +75 HP?
HoH? Do you talk about the HoD axe? It was +25 HP, not maxdam and without damage mod. Also it had been been changed to +15% damage while enchanted.

-1 health regen?
vampiric? or do you just want some degen on your character?

-1 energy regen?
Available, it's an inscription.

FoW armor giving more advantage?
If you like the look more than than that of another armor, then yes, but that's about it. Same goes to low req weapons, etc, all common misbeliefs and legends.

But now seriously. Has nobody read the articles on gw2? What has been proposed isn't something new. It is EXACTLY what Arena.net wants to do with GW2. So obviously they don't see a problem with it. It has no disadvantage at all. All disadvantages posted until yet are just because people have either misunderstood some things or didn't take their time to think about it.

The only disadvantage would be the time it needs to code that thing, but as they want to implement such a system to gw2 anyways, why not already implement and tweak it in gw1 adn reuse the code for part 2 that will be founded on the same and just tweaked engine? GW1 has been the obvious betatest for gw2 anyways!